yet another reason to dislike rush limbaugh

[reallygroovN]

like any of us needs a reason http://bbs.pearl-jam.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

so, before the games on sunday, rush is talking about my hero, donovan mcnabb, and says,
"I don't think he's been that good from the get-go," Limbaugh said about McNabb on last Sunday's pregame show. "I think what we've had here is a little social concern in the NFL.

"I think the media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well. They're interested in black coaches and black quarterbacks doing well. I think there's a little hope invested in McNabb and he got a lot of credit for the performance of his team that he really didn't deserve. The defense carried this team."

ok, so i joined in the *boos* when he was drafted, but i have pinned my hopes and dreams for a superbowl victory on his extremely handsome (does he not have the most beautiful smile?) and very strong (probably too strong, after seeing some of his recent passes) shoulders. i also think donovan is intelligent and a superior athlete.

with donovan, the eagles are 36-22, he's been invited to the past 3 pro-bowls, was the league runner up for mvp in 2000 and the team has been in the nfc title game the past two seasons. not too shabby.

here is what donovan said in response (which proves how smart he is ;) )....

"He said what he said. ... I'm sure he's not the only one that feels that way but it's somewhat shocking to acutally hear that on national TV," the Philadelphia Eagles' quarterback said of Limbaugh at a news conference Wednesday. "An apology would do no good because he obviously thought about it before he said it."

McNabb, who was runner-up for the league MVP award in 2000 and has led the Eagles to two straight NFC championship games, said he has no quarrel with Limbaugh's comment on his playing ability. "I know I played badly the first two games," he said Wednesday.

He said Wednesday that Limbaugh's comments about his race were out of bounds and added that someone on the show should have taken him on. Among the other panelists are former players Michael Irvin and Tom Jackson, both of whom are black.

"I'm not pointing at anyone but someone should have said it," McNabb said of the panelists, who also include Chris Berman and Steve Young. "I wouldn't have cared if it was the cameraman."

Seven black quarterbacks started games last Sunday. Two other blacks who regularly start, Daunte Culpepper of Minnesota and Michael Vick of Atlanta, were out with injuries.


now, its one thing for my neighbor to agree with limbaugh and considering where i live im sure half of them do agree with limbaugh...that is bad enough, but to have this person with national exposure to make this same remark is disgusting.

comeon, havent we evolved past this???

********thus endith this portion of commentary by cath :) **********

[Jde-PJ]

what did he say that was wrong?


he said Donovan was a hyped up quaterback, he is, now why is he, don't know, but could it possibly be that one of the reasons why he is might be because of the media wanting to hype him because of his color. It very well could be, nothing against him as a player or person, his comments had nothing to do with Mcnab, it had to do with why the media hypes him as a great QB, when he is just not that good.

Don't get me wrong, he is a good runner, but as a passer, he is not in the top 20 Qb's in the league, he never has been an accurate passer, and yeah that team has no talent surrounding him, but it always was the defense that won for them, and his passing had little to do with their offense succeding, it was always his legs, not his arm that got them down the field.

don't care what rush said, one way or another, just wanted to comment on this, because it is once again something that will be overblown by the mediam when the comment itself was about the media, not the player or person.

I like Donovan, and I always will, big SU fan, but he is not now, nor has he in the past been a great QB. He is still young though, so he could improve his passing accuracy, until he does, not someone I am overly impressed with.


later

[reallygroovN]

whatever you believe personally its wrong and irresponsible for this comment to be said in the media. how would you like it if rush made some disparaging comment about a jewish guy? it would piss me off.

donovan is hyped because he is a superior athlete for all the reasons i said: 2000 mvp runner up, pro bowl invitee three years in a row, as well as the win/loss record (which, since we DONT have much offensive talent is remarkable since most of the effort was his).

its wrong and once again rush limbaugh showed that he is a big, stupid idiot.

[JoeInCharleston]

Wow, you beat me to this one groovn lol. Whats the problem? Here is the problem: sure McNabb was hyped, and he really hasn't, over time lived up to all the lip service he was given, the problem is Rush played a Race card. Was he super direct in his statements? No, but he basically said McNabb was hyped because of his race...thats insanely insulting.

Of course the NFL is interested in African Americans doing well, they are interested in *everyone* doing well, and yes they are interested in making sure that anyone, no matter what their race or background, who has ability is made well known. To make a statement like Rush did is outlandish.

Hey, if the NFL actually did something like that, I'd lash out against the NFL no problem...but here is the thing, you don't say things like Rush did unless you have hard facts to back up your statement. If Rush had said something like "As you can see in this document, blah de blah... The NFL purposely hyped Donovan because of his race." In that case, he is reporting info to the rest of us. When he makes statements like he did, he is just being racial.

[Jde-PJ]

whatever you believe personally its wrong and irresponsible for this comment to be said in the media. how would you like it if rush made some disparaging comment about a jewish guy? it would piss me off.

donovan is hyped because he is a superior athlete for all the reasons i said: 2000 mvp runner up, pro bowl invitee three years in a row, as well as the win/loss record (which, since we DONT have much offensive talent is remarkable since most of the effort was his).

its wrong and once again rush limbaugh showed that he is a big, stupid idiot.
wow talk about pc police, you go get em cathyhttp://bbs.pearl-jam.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

once again, he said nothing about donovan, other than talking about why the media hypes him.

I don't really think the media hypes him because of his color, I just think he is a good guy, and is very open with the media, and they love guys like that, but his point was about the media, not donovan mcnab.

if he said something about jay fielder or however you spell his last name, that was similiar to what he said about donovan, would not bother be one bit, again tell me what he said about donovan????????

in terms of rush being an idiot, don't care one way or another, not a big fan of him, he is too full of himself for my taste, but I know one thing, he is going to get lambasted here, and he does not deserve it.


carry on with you pc policing cath, you wear the badge well http://bbs.pearl-jam.net/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Buannan]

I like rush...he cracks me up...he even makes a hell of a lot of sense sometimes

as for his statement...I think there's some truth to it...I do think the media hypes up donovan because of his race...they did they same with moon...only moon was a better quarterback..as for the pro bowl and all that...could be he made it there as part of the hype...it's possible...don't you think?

sometimes the truth hurts...nothing against donovan or moon...they are both great guys I'm sure...and it has nothing to do with them...it has to do with the media and their misguided...and even racist...hype...it's the media that likes to point out he's black...and they do...only they do it with positive remarks...so that makes it ok? if they say, hey, donovan is one of the best black quarterbacks ever...that's ok?
but if someone, rush or whomever, dares to say...he sucks and the media just says he's good because he's black...that's racist?

[reallygroovN]

jas, the man said that donovan is being hyped just cause he is black or, to quote him, "I think the media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well. They're interested in black coaches and black quarterbacks doing well. I think there's a little hope invested in McNabb and he got a lot of credit for the performance of his team that he really didn't deserve. The defense carried this team."

that is as wrong as my mother in law saying that black quaterbacks cant possibly be as good as white quarterbacks because black people just dont have the brainpower that white people have. no lie, she actually said that. and yes, i slammed her for saying that because it is ignorant and wrong...not because its politically incorrect.

donovan is a great quarterback and he is not black to me, he is green, eagle green http://bbs.pearl-jam.net/images/smilies/cool.gif

[reallygroovN]

buannan, it is totally NOT ok for anyone to designate anyone else by any means based on their race.

at least to me, its not ok.

black people are no different then me, they are just people.

donovan isnt good because he is black and he is not bad because he is black. he is great because he is a superior athlete and because he is my quarterback ;)

[Jde-PJ]

jas, the man said that donovan is being hyped just cause he is black or, to quote him, "I think the media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well. They're interested in black coaches and black quarterbacks doing well. I think there's a little hope invested in McNabb and he got a lot of credit for the performance of his team that he really didn't deserve. The defense carried this team."

that is as wrong as my mother in law saying that black quaterbacks cant possibly be as good as white quarterbacks because black people just dont have the brainpower that white people have. no lie, she actually said that. and yes, i slammed her for saying that because it is ignorant and wrong...not because its politically incorrect.

donovan is a great quarterback and he is not black to me, he is green, eagle green http://bbs.pearl-jam.net/images/smilies/cool.gif
don't put words in people's mouths cath, just use his quotes, which you did, then tell me,where did he knock donovon based on his race?


show me in his quotes how he knocked donovan, other than saying he is overated as a qb which is totally a subjective thing to each person who watches football.

do you think what he said about black quaterbacks and coaches is wrong in terms of the media?

did donovan get a lot of credit for the success of the eagles?

was your defense the real reason for the eagles success?

comparing what he said to what your mother in-law said is laughable, you can't really mean that, can you?

tell me you don't mean that?

donovan is a great athlete, he is also at least what I know of him to be a great guy, he is not a great qb yet, at least if you think a qb should be a great passer, which is how I judge qb's.

answer those questions and you will see you agree more than you disagree with rush.

[Buannan]

buannan, it is totally NOT ok for anyone to designate anyone else by any means based on their race.

at least to me, its not ok.

black people are no different then me, they are just people.

donovan isnt good because he is black and he is not bad because he is black. he is great because he is a superior athlete and because he is my quarterback ;)
and I agree with you...that true colorblindness means NEVER mentioning race...or seeing race...no matter what the color...or whether the mention is positive or negative....the point is...I've heard the NFL and/or media say things to the effect that donovan is one of the best black quarterbacks ever...and that's just as bad as saying he's being hyped because he's black
in a way...rush IS saying...be colorblind...either he's good or he's not...let his stats speak for themselves...and the stats aren't THAT good...not as good as the media would have us believe

if that makes any sense...and it probably doesn't
;)

[reallygroovN]

I think the media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well. They're interested in black coaches and black quarterbacks doing well. I think there's a little hope invested in McNabb and he got a lot of credit for the performance of his team that he really didn't deserve.

that is lumbaugh said. that is his quote.

let me ask you this, jas. after hearing the first two sentences, what do you think he meant by the third. do you think he just said the first two and then totally changed topics by saying the third?

i have said the third sentence a lot since last january, jason. i never ever said the first two. the third sentence on its own is correct...well, actually i think its more the owners and head coach and some players have gotten credit that they didnt deserve, but thats another story. it has nothing to do with race.

what rush said did, based on the first two sentences.

a + b = c, at least to me.

[Not_Trapped]

yeah it was wrong that he said it...do i hate him for saying it? no. he has the right to say what he wants just like i do - i just wish i had a fucking microphone.

dominic

[Not_Trapped]

he resigned...

dominic

[Smirks]

Yep... it's on the cover of just about every newspaper I see on the stands today.

[panthergirl]

Yep... it's on the cover of just about every newspaper I see on the stands today.


and now we hear the rumors of a pill habit.

anyway, he's an ogre :ogre:

[low_light]

hehe yeah i was listening to Stern and they we're talking about his pill habit ... had his maid buying him a shit load of pills. now he's on the air and not even mentioning anything about it.

oh well. i think it's hilarious.

-dm

[reallygroovN]

hehe yeah i was listening to Stern and they we're talking about his pill habit ... had his maid buying him a shit load of pills. now he's on the air and not even mentioning anything about it.

oh well. i think it's hilarious.

-dm

he, limbaugh, is in philly today....i sure hope my brethren give him a fine philly welcome (oh, if only it had snowed last night ;) )

all the media hype is pretty silly, actually. you know, for us in philly its kinda like... I can say something nasty about my mom but i'll deck you if YOU say something nasty about her. we have been complaining about mcnabb since he came to philly...not because he is black but because he throws the damm ball to hard, he doesnt use his runingback talent and he is inconsistent. that said, im sure we would boo Jesus if he was in at quarterback, and probably throw a few snowballs at him, also.

http://bbs.pearl-jam.net/images/smilies/ogre.gif

[peacefulness]

I, too, am inclined to agree with the idea that rush wasn't that far off. My understanding was that he was saying that the guy is not that could of a quarterback, and the media only wants to pretend like he is because of his color. I don't think it's entirely untrue that people of minority races are promoted more whether, talent-wise, they deserve it or not. In our society, we all have become so concerned with trying NOT to be racist that we are trying to hard, and still being racist anyway. We have not evolved (generally speaking), because we haven't come to a place to see past skin color.

Um... back to the topic at hand, I don't think he said that this McNabb fellow is a bad quarterblack because he's black. He said he's not as great of a quarterback as everyone makes him out to be, and that the only reason why he's made out to be so is because he's black. I really think this is yet another case of taking things way out of proportion.

I am also HIGHLY against someone being told to bite their tongue when it comes to their opinions just because they're on national TV (or in England to a country music audience... which is what I think of at this point, but anyway.....)

No offense to anyone, but I think people just need to mellow out a little.

Just my opinion...

As far as McNabb being a good or bad quarterback, black or white, I would have to say....

"Michael Irvin is BLACK???" ;)

~Melanie

PS: I'm a Texan who was a cowboys supporter back in their hay day back when it was cool to be a Cowboys fan... I know what Michael Irvin looks like. hehehe

[Smirks]

... I don't think he said that this McNabb fellow is a bad quarterblack because he's black ... freudian slip?

[peacefulness]

more like a typo.

~Melanie

[Not_Trapped]

slips can occur while typing as well

dominic

[RogueTrader]

I hate to have to do it, because i think he's a total idiot, but I agree with Limbaugh...(just excuse me while I have a shower)...

There is a great deal of interest in the US media and society as a whole in seeing Black QBs do well. The reasons have everything to do with race. 80% of NFL players are black, yet there are few black coaches or black QBs (ie; management).

Nowhere did Limbaugh say that he was not a good QB BECAUSE he was black. He said that he attracted alot more ATTENTION because he was. It's no different from saying that Pamela Anderson attracted alot more attention as a model, because she had big tits. <b>Attention <> Worth</b>.

As for those of you who think that it is verboten to mention race AT ALL, you might consider why it is that you want to run so far, so fast from a fact of life.

::M

[reallygroovN]

90 % of diehard football fans make no distinctions between a white quarterback and a black one (just as 90% of diehard cricket fans dont give a crap what nationality a player is, as long as he is on their team). the only distinction to be made is whether the quarterback is good or bad.

donovan gets the press he gets because
1. philadelphia is one of the largest football markets in the usa.
2. he is THE shining superstar on a team of nobodys that continues to be a contender every year.
3. nobody ever seriously counts the eagles as having a chance at more then 10 wins, however this area creates tons of revenue for the nfl and we (the eagles) always seem to get to the playoffs.
4. the nfl cannot market koy detmer, duce staley, lito sheppard or todd pinkston because they are nobodys.
5. donovan was drafted to one of the top (if not THE top) football markets in the country amidst a ton of controversy...philly wanted ricky williams, waybad, so the guys who went up to the nationally televised draft (and there were a ton of em) boo'ed the crap out of the pick that wasnt ricky williams but happened to be donovan mcnabb. at that moment, he became a national *star*.
6. everything that donovan has done since that point has been a natural media story because of the inital controversy. there is a built in angle....*donovan mcnabb drives his team of nobodys to the nfc championship..does he still hear the boos from draft day?* its a story fit for sports illustrated, hardcopy and people magazine, all in one.

not because he is black but because he is the quarterback for a top media market who consistantly wins games for a town that is known for throwing snowballs at santa claus.

and last i checked, santa was a white guy :oldman:

no one needs to make a distinction about race when the damm game is played by probably more then 75% black guys anyway. limbaugh was wrong about why my quarterback gets press. he didnt do his homework and he knows nothing of the nuances behind the philadelphia eagles, their fans and this town. what he said was bigoted and said in order to perpetuate a devide between races...to make a distinction between black athletes and white athletes.

i thought sports was supposed to transcend race.

[ProfessorFrink]

http://flix.baystreetbullies.com/2000/domi-water.jpg

[RogueTrader]

90 % of diehard football fans make no distinctions between a white quarterback and a black one (just as 90% of diehard cricket fans dont give a crap what nationality a player is, as long as he is on their team). the only distinction to be made is whether the quarterback is good or bad.

donovan gets the press he gets because
1. philadelphia is one of the largest football markets in the usa.
2. he is THE shining superstar on a team of nobodys that continues to be a contender every year.
3. nobody ever seriously counts the eagles as having a chance at more then 10 wins, however this area creates tons of revenue for the nfl and we (the eagles) always seem to get to the playoffs.
4. the nfl cannot market koy detmer, duce staley, lito sheppard or todd pinkston because they are nobodys.
5. donovan was drafted to one of the top (if not THE top) football markets in the country amidst a ton of controversy...philly wanted ricky williams, waybad, so the guys who went up to the nationally televised draft (and there were a ton of em) boo'ed the crap out of the pick that wasnt ricky williams but happened to be donovan mcnabb. at that moment, he became a national *star*.
6. everything that donovan has done since that point has been a natural media story because of the inital controversy. there is a built in angle....*donovan mcnabb drives his team of nobodys to the nfc championship..does he still hear the boos from draft day?* its a story fit for sports illustrated, hardcopy and people magazine, all in one.

not because he is black but because he is the quarterback for a top media market who consistantly wins games for a town that is known for throwing snowballs at santa claus.

and last i checked, santa was a white guy :oldman:

no one needs to make a distinction about race when the damm game is played by probably more then 75% black guys anyway. limbaugh was wrong about why my quarterback gets press. he didnt do his homework and he knows nothing of the nuances behind the philadelphia eagles, their fans and this town. what he said was bigoted and said in order to perpetuate a devide between races...to make a distinction between black athletes and white athletes.

i thought sports was supposed to transcend race.

Nothing that Limbaugh says contradicts anything you have writen above, Cath. He wasn't making statements about the quality of McNabb's arm or about the team or even about whether a black guy is better than a white guy or vice versa. All he is saying is that McNabb is one of a very small number of Black QBs and that this is an added pressure on his playing.

racism is a horrible a divisive thing and those who make racist statements should bear the brunt of their words. Limbaugh may be a racist, but this wasn't a racist statement. Any attempt to make it a racist statement is really just trying to convict him of a capital crime based on a minor infraction.

Anyway, now that I have found myself defending someone I hate, i will go and wash my mouth out with soap.

::M

[Not_Trapped]

i think it was racist yet it was pointed at the media's racism as opposed to limbaugh's - he basically said that if mcnabb was white nobody would give a shit about him - he just said it a different way -

i don't think mcnabb is very good and i think the media attention he gets is unworthy - am i racist?

you decide -

dominic

don't boo someone then hold them up on your shoulders because they are "helping" you - be consistent for goodness's sake :P

[yer ardy]

i don't like rush limbaugh
simply because he spits
when he talks.
if you can't control your
saliva when you verbalize,
then i can't deal with you.


go LIONS!!! :devious:

[reallygroovN]

http://flix.baystreetbullies.com/2000/domi-water.jpg
if i had a snowball here, i would throw it at you frink :P

[reallygroovN]

Nothing that Limbaugh says contradicts anything you have writen above, Cath. He wasn't making statements about the quality of McNabb's arm or about the team or even about whether a black guy is better than a white guy or vice versa. All he is saying is that McNabb is one of a very small number of Black QBs and that this is an added pressure on his playing.

racism is a horrible a divisive thing and those who make racist statements should bear the brunt of their words. Limbaugh may be a racist, but this wasn't a racist statement. Any attempt to make it a racist statement is really just trying to convict him of a capital crime based on a minor infraction.

Anyway, now that I have found myself defending someone I hate, i will go and wash my mouth out with soap.

::M
if limbaugh is a racist, then i believe it would follow that any statement he utters about race would therefore be racist. and i dont think he, at all meant that "All he is saying is that McNabb is one of a very small number of Black QBs and that this is an added pressure on his playing." i think he truly meant to make a statement that would rile people up and cause further division between americans.

i cannot stand limbaugh and his smarmy, holier then thou journalism and this latest statement directly effects me as much as if he said something about ed or pearljam.

so, i guess in fairness, i cannot really be nonjudgmental on this issue. i will admit to that.

rush limbaugh - really, terribly bad
donovan mcnabb - inconstant but im still holding out for his potential sainthood as the bearer of a superbowl victory and resulting parade down broad street in philly.
ricky williams - i ache to see him in a philadelphia eagle's uniform. the eagles should have picked him in the first place. this year's philly-miami game is going to be difficult to watch.
racism - not logical and a bad thing to consider.
washing mouth out with soap - interesting and could be yummy depending what type of soap you use...

go eagles! :rambo:

dominic - you better watch your step or you will never get a cheesesteak :P

[ProfessorFrink]

if i had a snowball here, i would throw it at you frink :P

you philly fans are so violent. you should focus that rage on Bobby Clarke. that would be way more constructive.

[Not_Trapped]

dominic - you better watch your step or you will never get a cheesesteak :P
i just know that isiah thomas said that if larry bird was a black basketball player that he would've been mediocre and no one would've cared about him. seems to be the same thing that limbaugh said just in the reverse.

no one wanted isiah thomas served up on a platter or asked for a resignation at the time.

i just think it's a little too PC to chastise someone for saying this. espcially when you are admittedly biased with this one.

am i a racist because i think that mcnabb isn't that good and that the only reason he gets press is because he is a decent black quarterback? make him white and he's chad hutchinson. but, he's black so he get positive press. i don't understand this. why do you wanna see ricky williams as an eagle? if you don't have a qb that can throw they are just gonna stack 8 guys in the box and rip williams's head off. mcnabb can't throw.

dominic

i want a cheesesteak

:P

[reallygroovN]

oh poo

the only one im chastising is rush limbaugh and im sure he doesnt give a fig AND he totally deserves it.

i told you why donovan gets the press he does. money talks and the philly are brings in huge revenues for the nfl so, in order to please us, the folks who line the pockets of the nfl, they have to highlight one of our players...and donovan is the only star.

you know, i spent the day watching eagle's season clips for the past 20 years on espn classic. donovan is not the only black qb that we have had...first was randal (loved him aside from his wierd attitude) and then rodney peete (i cant spell their names at this hour). anywho... i thought that was interesting.

and ricky williams is my kind of player...he makes the impossible possible...and that is what i love about football :D

go eagles!

no cheesesteaks for you, bucko :P

[Not_Trapped]

i want pancakes -

dominic

[Buannan]

Rush Limbaugh Was Right
Donovan McNabb isn't a great quarterback, and the media do overrate him because he is black.
By Allen Barra
Posted Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 3:33 PM PT



In his notorious ESPN comments last Sunday night, Rush Limbaugh said he never thought the Philadelphia Eagles' Donovan McNabb was "that good of a quarterback."

If Limbaugh were a more astute analyst, he would have been even harsher and said, "Donovan McNabb is barely a mediocre quarterback." But other than that, Limbaugh pretty much spoke the truth. Limbaugh lost his job for saying in public what many football fans and analysts have been saying privately for the past couple of seasons.

Let's review: McNabb, he said, is "overrated ... what we have here is a little social concern in the NFL. The media has been very desirous that a black quarterback can do well—black coaches and black quarterbacks doing well."

"There's a little hope invested in McNabb, and he got a lot of credit for the performance of his team that he didn't deserve. The defense carried this team."

Let's take the football stuff first. For the past four seasons, the Philadelphia Eagles have had one of the best defenses in the National Football League and have failed to make it to the Super Bowl primarily because of an ineffective offense—an offense run by Donovan McNabb. McNabb was a great college quarterback, in my estimation one of the best of the '90s while at Syracuse. (For the record, I helped persuade ESPN Magazine, then called ESPN Total Sports, to put him on the cover of the 1998 college-football preview issue.) He is one of the most talented athletes in the NFL, but that talent has not translated into greatness as a pro quarterback.

McNabb has started for the Eagles since the 2000 season. In that time, the Eagles offense has never ranked higher than 10th in the league in yards gained. In fact, their 10th-place rank in 2002 was easily their best; in their two previous seasons, they were 17th in a 32-team league. They rank 31st so far in 2003.

In contrast, the Eagles defense in those four seasons has never ranked lower than 10th in yards allowed. In 2001, they were seventh; in 2002 they were fourth; this year they're fifth. It shouldn't take a football Einstein to see that the Eagles' strength over the past few seasons has been on defense, and Limbaugh is no football Einstein, which is probably why he spotted it.

The news that the Eagles defense has "carried" them over this period should be neither surprising nor controversial to anyone with access to simple NFL statistics—or for that matter, with access to a television. Yet, McNabb has received an overwhelming share of media attention and thus the credit. Now why is this?

Let's look at a quarterback with similar numbers who also plays for a team with a great defense. I don't know anyone who would call Brad Johnson one of the best quarterbacks in pro football—which is how McNabb is often referred to. In fact, I don't know anyone who would call Brad Johnson, on the evidence of his 10-year NFL career, much more than mediocre. Yet, Johnson's NFL career passer rating, as of last Sunday, is 7.3 points higher than McNabb's (84.8 to 77.5), he has completed his passes at a higher rate (61.8 percent to 56.4 percent), and has averaged significantly more yards per pass (6.84 to 5.91). McNabb excels in just one area, running, where he has gained 2,040 yards and scored 14 touchdowns to Johnson's 467 and seven. But McNabb has also been sacked more frequently than Johnson—more than once, on average, per game, which negates much of the rushing advantage.

In other words, in just about every way, Brad Johnson has been a more effective quarterback than McNabb and over a longer period.

And even if you say the stats don't matter and that a quarterback's job is to win games, Johnson comes out ahead. Johnson has something McNabb doesn't, a Super Bowl ring, which he went on to win after his Bucs trounced McNabb's Eagles in last year's NFC championship game by a score of 27-10. The Bucs and Eagles were regarded by everyone as having the two best defenses in the NFL last year. When they played in the championship game, the difference was that the Bucs defense completely bottled up McNabb while the Eagles defense couldn't stop Johnson.

In terms of performance, many NFL quarterbacks should be ranked ahead of McNabb. But McNabb has represented something special to all of us since he started his first game in the NFL, and we all know what that is.

Limbaugh is being excoriated for making race an issue in the NFL. This is hypocrisy. I don't know of a football writer who didn't regard the dearth of black NFL quarterbacks as one of the most important issues in the late '80s and early '90s. (The topic really caught fire after 1988, when Doug Williams of the Washington Redskins became the first black quarterback to win a Super Bowl.)

So far, no black quarterback has been able to dominate a league in which the majority of the players are black. To pretend that many of us didn't want McNabb to be the best quarterback in the NFL because he's black is absurd. To say that we shouldn't root for a quarterback to win because he's black is every bit as nonsensical as to say that we shouldn't have rooted for Jackie Robinson to succeed because he was black. (Please, I don't need to be reminded that McNabb's situation is not so difficult or important as Robinson's—I'm talking about a principle.)

Consequently, it is equally absurd to say that the sports media haven't overrated Donovan McNabb because he's black. I'm sorry to have to say it; he is the quarterback for a team I root for. Instead of calling him overrated, I wish I could be admiring his Super Bowl rings. But the truth is that I and a great many other sportswriters have chosen for the past few years to see McNabb as a better player than he has been because we want him to be.

Rush Limbaugh didn't say Donovan McNabb was a bad quarterback because he is black. He said that the media have overrated McNabb because he is black, and Limbaugh is right. He didn't say anything that he shouldn't have said, and in fact he said things that other commentators should have been saying for some time now. I should have said them myself. I mean, if they didn't hire Rush Limbaugh to say things like this, what did they hire him for? To talk about the prevent defense?

Allen Barra is the author of Clearing the Bases: The Greatest Baseball Debates of the Last Century.

Article URL: http://slate.msn.com/id/2089193/

[reallygroovN]

everyone is entitled to their opinion.

my opinion about why donovan is over-rated is above. i tend to hold more credence to my opinion cause its, well, mine. that and i live and breathe philadelphia football (in case ya havent noticed over the past few years http://bbs.pearl-jam.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif) and have for the past 20 years or so.

so, this is MY united states of whatever. :P