Update on Big Al

[GreenDisease]

Dad is hanging in there.. been through hell since Wednsday.

We thought at first the surgery went okay. The surgeon told my mom and I that the gallbladder was the size of a sausage and had a stone in the bile duct. But he took it out laproscopically, even though from the sounds of the gallbladder, it should have been done conventionally. The surgeron didnt' tell us that he removed the stone, so we assumed he did.

Later that day my dad had this massive pain attack, kinda looked like he was having a seizure. He thought he was having a gallbladder attack, but his gallbladder was out. He completely soaked himself and the bed with sweat and he was practically jumping out of the bed. The nurses of course were playing stupid and had no idea what was going on. And my dad was yellow. Homer Simpson yellow. Nurses had no explanation for that either.

My mom and I went back later that day with my brother and my dad was in such bad shape, I lost it. He was all swollen, yellow, and chucking his brains out. My dad and I don't get along that well, but he's my dad, and that was rough to see.

He had another pain attack during the night, so Im guessing that they ran some tests, and found the stone in the bile duct. He had a condition called *something* "collic"..sorry I forgot the term, where the body is trying to expell the stone and its just like a gallbladder attack. They rushed him into emergency surgery Thursday morning to remove it. Afterwards he developed a fever of 102 and his blood pressure was sky high.

He's been getting a little better with each day, but he's got a long haul. Im having childhood flashbacks of my grandpa in the nursing home when I look at him. I can tell he's getting pissy because he's cooped up in the room, and he'd rather be outside with his lawnmower and the hose to wash the car.

This week felt like an entire year and Im completely beat. And Im not the one who had the surgery!

[ShadowJam1]

Wow, I am so sorry to hear all the problems your dad is having.
Positive thoughts to him, and your family from me..

[rockrighter]

I have to wonder, since the surgeon noted that there was a stone in the bile duct, why did he not remove it initially? The Doc would know about the problems associated with leaving it in; one would think that, eh? I find that rather disturbing.

At least he's on the mend, now. Best wishes to your Pop, you, & your whole family. Take care.

[GreenDisease]

I have to wonder, since the surgeon noted that there was a stone in the bile duct, why did he not remove it initially? The Doc would know about the problems associated with leaving it in; one would think that, eh? I find that rather disturbing.

At least he's on the mend, now. Best wishes to your Pop, you, & your whole family. Take care.
Thats EXACTLY what my mother and I have been talking about since the surgery. If you see it, why not remove it while you're already in there, and prevent him from being in colassal pain later in the day. I keep telling my mother to contact this man and ask him why he left it in, what a dumbass.


My dad was looking so much better yesterday and I stopped by after work tonight and he went downhill really fast. His temperature is 101 and he's in alot of pain. he cut back on the percocets because he's been having trouble going number 2 and those perc's make him bloated. The nurses won't give him a laxative, and understandably so, but atleast give him some natural fiber or something. That could release alot of unwanted pressure in his stomach.

He was pretty testy tonight, very crabby. :(

[brokenarrow]

I'm sorry to hear about your dad and family having such a rough time. I'll keep you all in my thoughts, and your dad for a strong, healthy recovery.

[GreenDisease]

I'm sorry to hear about your dad and family having such a rough time. I'll keep you all in my thoughts, and your dad for a strong, healthy recovery.
Another update.... and it dont look that great....

My mom just got home from the hospital, and things aren't looking that great right now. My dad already had that high fever, and was feeling pretty miserable. After I left my dad wanted to go to the bathroom to brush his teeth and freshen up a bit. My mom noticed this huge red mark about 9 inches in a circular pattern on his back by where the drain is inserted. My mom felt it and it was rock hard, bright red and hot. She alerted a nurse and she thought it could be a condition called cellulitis.. not like the flab thats on some people's bodies..I never knew there was two different classifications, lol. Anyways, he's been coughing alot lately, so the nurse listened to his chest, and he didn't like what he heard. My dad told my mom to go home just before he was being wheeled down to x-ray, so we're still waiting to hear the results of that.

If you're ever in Ocean County NJ.. don't get sick here... the hospital sucks. :(

[GreenDisease]

Another update.... and it dont look that great....

My mom just got home from the hospital, and things aren't looking that great right now. My dad already had that high fever, and was feeling pretty miserable. After I left my dad wanted to go to the bathroom to brush his teeth and freshen up a bit. My mom noticed this huge red mark about 9 inches in a circular pattern on his back by where the drain is inserted. My mom felt it and it was rock hard, bright red and hot. She alerted a nurse and she thought it could be a condition called cellulitis.. not like the flab thats on some people's bodies..I never knew there was two different classifications, lol. Anyways, he's been coughing alot lately, so the nurse listened to his chest, and he didn't like what he heard. My dad told my mom to go home just before he was being wheeled down to x-ray, so we're still waiting to hear the results of that.

If you're ever in Ocean County NJ.. don't get sick here... the hospital sucks. :(
I almost lost my dad this week. :(

The doctor had to perform ANOTHER surgery on Tuesday. For this one he cut my dad completely open to do some exploratory surgery and found an ulcer on the opening of his stomach (how 4 ct/scans didn't see this, I'll never know), and it had a tear on it. The tear was leaking stomach acid and pancreatic fluid into the bile duct where the gallbladder was. Parts of his insides were starting to get icky from the stomach acid so he could have some permanent damage. If the doctor hadn't done this, my father would surely have died.

I'm thinking that this undiagnosed ulcer was nicked during the second surgery to remove the stone from the duct and no one noticed. After this surgery is when he started to go sharply down hill and no one had an explanation for it.

He's on a morphine drip so he's hardly awake most of the time and can't speak do to a tube thats up his nose and down his throat.

To make matters more stressful on my mother, my grandfather was robbed in broad day light Tuesday afternoon. He was in the cellar doing laundry and came up to find a colored woman standing in the living room. She said she was from some agency to clean the house and what not and my grandpa misunderstood that for the aide that comes to the house for my uncles physical therapy. She gave him some stupid story that the agency was always screwing things up, yada yada...and asked to use the phone. He let her, made another bullshit story, then left. He watched her walk away then came back into the house to find his wallet missing. He never keeps his wallet on him, always in his dresser, but he left it out downstairs and it was swiped. For all we know there was two people in the house, and that "phone call" was a diversion to get the other person out. So far nothing else is missing, but my mother was livid in the hospital parking lot yesterday.

He's lucky he wasn't killed.. I was so worried that they would come back at night. Once a thief knows they can get in somewhere, they usually hit more then once.

[yer ardy]

geez cara, i don't know what
to say other than i'll be thinking
good thoughts for your whole family...

this luck has got to change soon, eh?

[Highway23]

jesus...

Cara, I hope every thing starts turning around for you and yer family, especially yer pops. I'm sorry things have been going so shitty, but they will get better.

Having a loving family around him will help him even more...even if he is a little testy :)

Hang in there!

[GreenDisease]

jesus...

Cara, I hope every thing starts turning around for you and yer family, especially yer pops. I'm sorry things have been going so shitty, but they will get better.

Having a loving family around him will help him even more...even if he is a little testy :)

Hang in there!
Another update....

Things are not looking good..... Period.

I talked to my mom yesterday afternoon and she said that he sounded fine and was sitting in the reclining chair. He actually told her that the suction tube that was in his stomach just fell outta his nose. Don't understand how a long tube like that can just fall out.

Anyways, I went to see him last night after work and he looked so bad. He could hardly speak because of the tube and he was making all these heavy phlemy sounds that frightened the holy hell outta me. I just let him sleep, and I couldn't take it, I just started to sob. I just have this terrible realization of losing him and its making me feel like a bad daughter. How can you possibly be upbeat and positive while you watch someone slowly slip away?

[Highway23]

It's okay to not know what to do. It's okay to cry.

When you're around him, it's just important that you keep looking 'happy' and smile as much as you can. Gotta be strong for him.

I can't imagine what yer going through, but know that all of us are thinking of you and your family.

Stay positive and hang in there!

[yer ardy]

cara.....
first things first....you MUST talk to his nurse(s), doctor(s) or
representative(s)/patient advocate(s) on that floor to find out what is going on, exactly....and don't stop trying to talk to someone until you get some answers. if they blow you off or are evasive, go to their supervisors...and keep going up til you get what you want.

have they told you there's no hope and he's slipping away? being positive is the hardest thing to be in this type of situation but in reality, you have to be...for yourself, your mom and most importantly your dad. no one likes to see anyone they love and care about in this way. it's a cruel mind game you have to play but you can rise above it, trust me.

when my brother was in the hospital with a shattered pelvis, i was so annoyingly bothersome to the doctor and nurses they did everything
to accomodate me with all kinds of information, chart updates, xrays...
i was there at the hospital every evening during 2 weeks in june and
when they saw me coming, they automatically went and got his chart
to fill me in on "what happened today"...you have to be vocal for your dad, you have that right, and so does your mom.

get some facts, get the answers....
make a list of questions you have and
don't stop trying to get information.
knowledge is power and in this case
an extreme necessity. once you know
what's going on for real, it will ease
your mind and help everyone heal.

[GreenDisease]

cara.....
first things first....you MUST talk to his nurse(s), doctor(s) or
representative(s)/patient advocate(s) on that floor to find out what is going on, exactly....and don't stop trying to talk to someone until you get some answers. if they blow you off or are evasive, go to their supervisors...and keep going up til you get what you want.

have they told you there's no hope and he's slipping away? being positive is the hardest thing to be in this type of situation but in reality, you have to be...for yourself, your mom and most importantly your dad. no one likes to see anyone they love and care about in this way. it's a cruel mind game you have to play but you can rise above it, trust me.

when my brother was in the hospital with a shattered pelvis, i was so annoyingly bothersome to the doctor and nurses they did everything
to accomodate me with all kinds of information, chart updates, xrays...
i was there at the hospital every evening during 2 weeks in june and
when they saw me coming, they automatically went and got his chart
to fill me in on "what happened today"...you have to be vocal for your dad, you have that right, and so does your mom.

get some facts, get the answers....
make a list of questions you have and
don't stop trying to get information.
knowledge is power and in this case
an extreme necessity. once you know
what's going on for real, it will ease
your mind and help everyone heal.
The hospital he is in has the worst reputation and I work with a few people who said they'd rather die then go there.

I told my mother what I observed last night and she went there this morning blazing mad. Since day one of this ordeal, we've been getting evasive answers, and a surgeon that says nothing but "one day at a time". He shouldn't be saying "One day at a time" because my father should have been home last Friday. Its the surgeon's neglegence since the first surgery that has my father in this position. Three major surgeries in one week doesn't seem like a good track record for an experienced surgeon. There is another hospital close by, but that one is just as bad as this one. I told my mother to start playing with the idea of transfering him up north to get better care.

Monday we're also going to be contacting my fathers PCP for his records, his gastroentologist for his tests results and procedure reports. We've got no idea if the surgeon even has looked at these let alone even gotten them before the surgery.

My mom works in the health care industry, so they can't pull the wool over her eyes with this... she knows too much. She's seen so much unsanitary things going on I told her to compile a list and send it to the state.

My mom called earlier but she just asked if my brother was still home, and if he could do some yard stuff before Charley hits tonight, but she rushed me off the phone, so I don't know whats going on.

[GreenDisease]

It's okay to not know what to do. It's okay to cry.

When you're around him, it's just important that you keep looking 'happy' and smile as much as you can. Gotta be strong for him.

I can't imagine what yer going through, but know that all of us are thinking of you and your family.

Stay positive and hang in there!

When I saw him on Thursday night I sat by his bedside and watched him sleep. When he'd open his eyes I'd make faces at him and he would raise his eyebrows to let me know he got what I was trying to do.

[Om1]

I'm not sure I quite understand your post.

you said:
"We thought at first the surgery went okay. The surgeon told my mom and I that the gallbladder was the size of a sausage and had a stone in the bile duct." That's in reference to his first surgery to remove the gall bladder, right?

Later in the same post you said "He had another pain attack during the night, so Im guessing that they ran some tests, and found the stone in the bile duct." So he had 2 pain attacks before the doctors and nurses ran any tests? Also, is this when they actually found the stone in his common bile duct? Or did the doctor tell you about the stone after his initial gall bladder surgery? When exactly did they find the stone?

My brother's a doctor, cara. I read your post to him and he had a few answers to your questions but you absolutely need to press your father's doctors for answers to all your questions. Whatever you're asking here needs to be directed to a doctor who can actually answer you - i.e. You have to ask your surgeon if he has the updated records from your father's gastroenterologist, etc. Take Ardy's cue and don't be afraid and do NOT be intimidated. You have rights. I understand that this a bad time but you have to be level headed and insure that your dad is getting the best care he can get.

It sounds like your dad's bile duct was not initially obstructed despite the stone. To answer reena's question, doctors typically leave the stone in a common bile duct because there is a very good chance it will pass naturally. Performing surgery on a bile duct is a risky surgery because if it gets severed, the patient will die. After his gall bladder surgery, the area was inflamed and that may have been the impetus for complete obstruction of the common bile duct, hence the jaundiced "Homer simpson" look and other symptoms. That was grounds for the next surgery. It would make sense that the doctors only found the stone after his attacks because gall stones don't normally go into the common bile duct -- doctors don't normally run tests or scans for it. Three surgeries in one week could be anything from unforeseeable complications or a doctor's negligence. It's your job to find out what's going on.

CT scans won't show ulcers.
Did you ask the doctor if the tear happened during surgery?
was it a tear or an ulcer or both?
Tubes can "fall out" of the nose if the patient unintentionally pulls on it his sleep. You're right, it can't just fall out by itself if its extended 50+ cm into the stomach.


If you're unsatisfied with the care this hospital is giving your father, then transfer him asap. If you are 100% sure that your father isn't home because of a surgeon's negligence as opposed to innocent complications then you should get in contact with the hospital's legal department and get proper legal advice from other sources.

Good luck with everything.

[yer ardy]

The hospital he is in has the worst reputation and I work with a few people who said they'd rather die then go there. .


cara...this statement bothers me...
only because if this is the case,
this would be the *last* hospital
i would ever take a loved one to...
and if they were taken there
without my involvement, i would
see to it that they were transferred
immediately....

what were the circumstances for your dad to be
taken to such a terrible hospital?

[reallygroovN]

still keeping your fam in my prayers, cara.

from my experience, its important to get the answers from the docs. the best way, i've found, is to be rational and calm as well as persistant.

and when you are around mom or dad, mostly dad...be positive and upbeat. and then cry and throwup in the hallway.

oh, also, many times, the nurses know way more about the patient then the docs.

[rockrighter]

It sounds like your dad's bile duct was not initially obstructed despite the stone. To answer reena's question, doctors typically leave the stone in a common bile duct because there is a very good chance it will pass naturally. Performing surgery on a bile duct is a risky surgery because if it gets severed, the patient will die. After his gall bladder surgery, the area was inflamed and that may have been the impetus for complete obstruction of the common bile duct, hence the jaundiced "Homer simpson" look and other symptoms. That was grounds for the next surgery. It would make sense that the doctors only found the stone after his attacks because gall stones don't normally go into the common bile duct -- doctors don't normally run tests or scans for it. Three surgeries in one week could be anything from unforeseeable complications or a doctor's negligence. It's your job to find out what's going on.

I sorta figured that in her Dad's condition, it may be removed as a precaution. I see why they left it in, though. Yikes.

Cara - Get answers. Get your whole family after them for answers. Take care, we're all holding your family in our thoughts.

[GreenDisease]

I sorta figured that in her Dad's condition, it may be removed as a precaution. I see why they left it in, though. Yikes.

Cara - Get answers. Get your whole family after them for answers. Take care, we're all holding your family in our thoughts.
My mom finally cornered the doctor tonight and got a few answers. She feels a bit better, but she's contacting all of his doctors tomorrow to get everything because she's still not fully satisfied.

He was started on a liquid nutrition diet yesterday because he hasn't had any nutrition or protein in almost two weeks. He says he feels a bit better, better then nothing I guess.

Im pretty sure that the ulcer was torn during the second surgery. Both doctors claim to have to have not known about the ulcer and it was a "surprise" when he was complately opened up during the 3rd surgery.

We still need answers to his colonoscopy and biopsy results, and we also need to figure out how liver spots and an imflamed prostate figure in to all of this.

It's very hard to get answers these days due to the HIPPA laws in place, and I understand. I work in the medical field and I know I can't mutter a word about any patient. But a patient in my fathers case who is so doped up on morphine and can't understand anything, immediate family getting information shouldn't be such a big deal.

As far as leaving the stone in after the first surgery, the stupid surgeon could have told us that he left it in, but he didn't tell us. My dad had this massive pain attack, and the nurses didnt' mention that he left the stone in, infact, they were perplexed as to why he was in so much pain. Stating that "we've never seen patients who have had laproscopic surgery have that much pain afterwards".

He was taken to this hospital because of convience. There is another one about 30 minutes south of where I live and that one isn't much better either. All the top hospitals are hours away from us and we'd all have to take vacations to be with him. Its already breaking my heart that I only see him an hour a day. Im the only one that sees him most days because my brother lives up north, and my mom works from 3-11 and she works a part time job most mornings.

He will probably be in the hospital until the weekend, or maybe longer. The stomach goop still isn't looking right, so that tube won't come out till the middle of the week, plus he started to develope a bad rash all over himself from one of the anti-biotics. I hope he's out soon...... Im leaving for the Dominican in 10 days and I'll be a complete reck if I leave and he's still in there.

[yer ardy]

cara, no disrespect about the choice of hospitals your family has...
i was just wondering... and i understand..it's unfortunate that when
the need arises we don't have better healthcare options...

good goin about your mom getting answers to (some)questions.
keep it up...


don't worry..it's gonna be alright :)