Hmm... interesting email ...

[Smirks]

I just got an email from someone wanting to buy the pearl-jam.net domain:



Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:06:28 -0800
From: Melanie Lauger <melanie.lauger@stokeslaw.com>
To: Chris Martino
Cc: Leslie Ruiter <leslie.ruiter@stokeslaw.com>,
Bradford Axel <bradford.axel@stokeslaw.com>
Subject: PEARL-JAM.NET Domain Name

Dear Mr. Martino,

According to Whois domain registration data, you are listed as the current
Registrant of the PEARL-JAM.NET domain name. We would like to inquire as
to whether the domain is for sale, and if so, what is your asking price?

Sincerely,

Melanie Lauger
Stokes Lawrence, P.S.
800 Fifth Avenue, Suite 4000
Seattle, WA 98104
Ph: (206) 626-6000
Fax: (206) 464-1496
You think these are PJ's lawyers? Should I respond? Am I going to get sued?

Thoughts are welcome!

Chris

[Not_Trapped]

find out who the hell they are - then go from there -

--dominic--

[Smirks]

Thanks. I replied asking why they wanted to buy it, and who they were contacting me for.

[csmooth24]

want me to ask nicole at vandenberg PR?

[Smirks]

Sure... I'm lookin for any insight to this email I can get. If they are PJs lawyers they may be trying to go about getting the domain the 'nice way' before suing the pants off me.

[Not_Trapped]

chris - i called my jurisdiction prof and she said that you need to find out who it is and why they are wanting it if they are people representing the trademark holding entity -

check this out, so you have some information to go on when they respond to you

General Info (http://www.bitlaw.com/internet/domain.html#legal)

and

<a href="http://www.bitlaw.com/source/15usc/1125.html#(d)">Federal Statute</a>

dominic

i just watched a bigger guy using all his extremities get beaten up by a man using only one arm

[Smirks]

Thanks, Dom.

Here's what I sent back:



Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:20:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Chris Martino
To: Melanie Lauger <melanie.lauger@stokeslaw.com>
Cc: Leslie Ruiter <leslie.ruiter@stokeslaw.com>,
Bradford Axel <bradford.axel@stokeslaw.com>
Subject: Re: PEARL-JAM.NET Domain Name

Yes, I am the registrant for the domain. May I ask who you are contacting
me for? And, why are they/you interested in purchasing it?

Regards,
Chris
... and their response ...



Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:58:45 -0800
From: Melanie Lauger <melanie.lauger@stokeslaw.com>
To: Chris Martino
Subject: RE: PEARL-JAM.NET Domain Name

[ The following text is in the "iso-8859-1" character set. ]
[ Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set. ]
[ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ]

We represent the owner of the U.S. and foreign trademark rights in the term
PEARL JAM. Please let me know your asking price at your earliest convenience.

Thank you,
Melanie Lauger

So... I guess, Chris, when you can get back to me about what Nicole has to say. I'm still wondering if this is from their lawyers.

[csmooth24]

interesting. i sent her an email and haven't heard back yet. i'll keep you posted...

[Highway23]

Let me go on the record saying: "Fuck them if they are going to shut this down or sue you for having this domain"....



But honestly...

Now that they are on they're on their own label? or something like that...I"m sure that they are going to go out and see what they can get...maybe they can't get Pearljam.com back or whatever...They started asking money right away???

I don't think you have that much to worry....it doesn't seem to be a very professional thing to do. I also doesn't mention anything about the way that the site is run, or how long it has been up. This leads me to think that you may be getting you dick yanked.

I would be EXTREMELY cautious on this one dood. Because it doesn't seem like a very professional way to go about things....

[RogueTrader]

Let me go on the record saying: "Fuck them if they are going to shut this down or sue you for having this domain"....



But honestly...

Now that they are on they're on their own label? or something like that...I"m sure that they are going to go out and see what they can get...maybe they can't get Pearljam.com back or whatever...They started asking money right away???

I don't think you have that much to worry....it doesn't seem to be a very professional thing to do. I also doesn't mention anything about the way that the site is run, or how long it has been up. This leads me to think that you may be getting you dick yanked.

I would be EXTREMELY cautious on this one dood. Because it doesn't seem like a very professional way to go about things....
I think it's an extremely professional way to go about it, Jake, and what's more I think they are probably being nicer than they have to be. As the link Dom so thoughtfully provided states: The more general portion of the statute (http://www.bitlaw.com/source/15usc/1125.html#%28d%29) protects companies against persons who, in bad faith, register a domain name that is the same or confusingly similar to an existing trademark.So the only thing protecting Chris from a law suit is the fact that he registered the name in good faith and did not do it solely for the purposes of cyber-squatting.

Put yourself in the shoes of the band. They are taking the enourmously corageous step of breaking away from a major label with fantastic distribution contracts and going it alone. All they now have (apart from prodigious musical talent) is their brand name. As I understand things, they don't even retain the rights to their back catalogue, save the song writing royalties.

In order to protect themselves and their ability to fairly represent themselves, they HAVE to own all the variants to the URLs. I think it's pretty fair that they are asking Chris for a price (one I would suggest would be a little higher than average as buying the name out right would save them a shit load of cash in legal bills).

Selling the domain name doesn't mean that the site is shut down. Chris can name it something else and we can all still post here about the band and whatever. PLUS, Chris can ask for more the going rate (not ridiculously more - you can't take the piss, after all) and maybe spend the extra cash on a bandwidth bill, upgrading hardware, or even on a big boozey night out on the town which he deserves.

Look at this in the way it is intended, as an attempt to achieve a win for both parties and something which could so easily be a win lose.

::M

[Highway23]

Okay...

yer right...I suppose...

I'm going to blame this on the beer tonight...


don't listen to me :)

[ProfessorFrink]

my suggestion...

sell the domain name for 33% more than you figure people should have to pay.

that way you'll stay in line with Pearl Jam's fluctuating philosophy on what ticket prices should be for their fans.

and afterall, you could always get a new domain name. we'll know where to go if you give us the heads up.

when it comes down to the business side of things... follow their example and do what's best for you. you deserve it Chris.

[Not_Trapped]

i would try to find out who it is, like you are doing, and why they want it - if they realize that you are not trying to make money at all they might let you keep it if they realize you're on the up and up and just hosting a message board -

dominic

[ambrosis]

here's my two cents. find out who it is and if it is actually pearl jam, for the hell of it let them have it, literally give it to them at no cost. maybe you can get free tickets for life for any and or all of their concerts. everyone is always out to make a buck so take the high road. pearl jam has been one of the few bands that actually care about their fans. this is a perfect way to say hey, your fans care about you too! i am sure it would shock the pants off of them!

[prism]

tell them they can have the domain name in exchange for the band doing a concert in yer backyard for you and 500 of yer closest friends

Chris, buddy-ole-pal ;)

[peacefulness]

a) I didn't do it. ;)

b) Your last name is Martino?

~Melanie

[mensane]

tell them they can have the domain name in exchange for the band doing a concert in yer backyard for you and 500 of yer closest friends

Chris, buddy-ole-pal ;)
that's what i was thinking....like decide on a minimum number of posts a person has to have made to be considered a "regular" and those people get to go to the show... or perhaps we can get lifetime tickets....hmm....very very interesting....lol

[Johnny Carwash]

chris, didn't i read somewhere that you need a business loan?

three words: one million dollars

[Smirks]

a) I didn't do it. ;)

b) Your last name is Martino?

~Melanie
Yes, it is.... y u ask?

[Smirks]

chris, didn't i read somewhere that you need a business loan?

three words: one million dollars
LOL... I's thinkin the same.... but, then they'd get the impression that I'm trying to make money off them and they would then have 'evidence' that I am cyber-squatting or whatever like Dominic's links pointed out and Michael examined.

[Smirks]

So what do y'all think my next course of action should be? How should I respond?

I was thinking something along the lines of:



I don't think I'm willing to sell at this time, however if you were to make me an offer I couldn't refuse I would consider thinking about it.
How does that sound? Does it sound greedy? Would it be too much to ask for 2 stellar seated tickets to any and all shows of my picking for my lifetime?

I'd promise to take you all at least once!

[oblio]

So what do y'all think my next course of action should be? How should I respond?

I was thinking something along the lines of:



How does that sound? Does it sound greedy? Would it be too much to ask for 2 stellar seated tickets to any and all shows of my picking for my lifetime?

I'd promise to take you all at least once!
sounds like they would find a horse's head in their bed if they
refused.

hey chris,whatever they offer,i'll double it!!

[Buannan]

you could always explain you want to go into business, the nature of the business, and see if they want to be your financial partners in exchange for the domain

I'd say, if they are legit, and they ARE listed in the seattle phone book and yellow pages, I checked
but...if they do represent PJ...I'd either go for the chance to explain your business to them and get them to be your financial partners, or just give it to them

but, I'm like that...I'd give my last dollar to a homeless guy to buy a cup of coffee
that's why I'll never be rich

[Johnny Carwash]

i've always liked the phrase...... "I'm willing to entertain offers"

[reallygroovN]

So what do y'all think my next course of action should be? How should I respond?

I was thinking something along the lines of:



How does that sound? Does it sound greedy? Would it be too much to ask for 2 stellar seated tickets to any and all shows of my picking for my lifetime?

I'd promise to take you all at least once!well, i was already with you in a stellar standing place ;)

first of all....has the name pearl-jam.net for sale? i know you took down the website and are now operating just the bbs but im not sure if the name, itself, is forsale.

second of all....even though these people are representing pearljam...they are *the man* (in the words of jack black ;) ). we are doing no harm here. the worst they can say is that you are distributing free live recordings that are unable to be purchased (by the band's own design) and i believe the band is totally fine with that, anyway. you are making no money on this site, you only once ever asked us for donations to purchase new technology for the site (even though most of us would send you something on a regular basis). i believe what you are doing is freely spreading the jam on a bbs that does nothing to denigrate the band or the likeness or personal lives of the band members.

third of all...maybe you need to consult a friend who is an attorney who would know how to proceed here. if they are out to sue you, then you responding to them that you are willing to entertain a sale, and likely profit, might give them cause to proceed legally, am i explaining myself here?

fourth of all...if they are so interested in the site, tell em to get a user name and join in the discussion :D

fifth of all...the name is pearl-jam.net it isnt pearl jam or pearljam or eddie vedder. to my knowledge, there is no slash in their name ;)

sixth of all...i really dont know what im talking about and if it was me, i would probably tell em they could have the site if they are REALLY representing pearljam and wanted it so badly (as long as they allow the bbs to continue on with you as our fearless leader). as a joke, i most def would include a sentence or two about tickets to their area concerts or a personal concert :)

[Smirks]

third of all...maybe you need to consult a friend who is an attorney who would know how to proceed here. if they are out to sue you, then you responding to them that you are willing to entertain a sale, and likely profit, might give them cause to proceed legally, am i explaining myself here?

That is exactly the point I am most worried about. I don't want to say anything, and then stick my foot in my mouth in the process. I'm going to wait a couple days to see what Mr. Smooth was able to turn up. If nothing, then I'll consult Dominic and a friend of mine who's a 3rd yr. law student.

[reallygroovN]

That is exactly the point I am most worried about. I don't want to say anything, and then stick my foot in my mouth in the process. I'm going to wait a couple days to see what Mr. Smooth was able to turn up. If nothing, then I'll consult Dominic and a friend of mine who's a 3rd yr. law student.
yeah, well it seems to me that if you can prove that you dont make a profit off the site which has their name...and that you dont intend on making a profit then they really have nothing to go on, legally. and if it was a really big deal, the name and all, then sony would have done something about it. because as it stands now, its the band that would be paying the lawyers to sue you...not some huge corporation.

im sure the smoothone will be able to come up with something positive :rolleyes: :cool:

[oblio]

whatever you decide I know everyone here and there
support you 100%.:cool:

I think they should hire you as an east coast rep.
and run things for them.

[Beta]

chris, didn't i read somewhere that you need a business loan?

three words: one million dollars

don't you mean one HUNdred BIllion dollars?

*places pinky on bottom lip*

[Smirks]

Well, I've decided to inquire about more information as to who they are and who their representing. Here's my latest response to them:



Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:09:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Chris Martino
To: Melanie Lauger &lt;melanie.lauger@stokeslaw.com&gt;
Subject: RE: PEARL-JAM.NET Domain Name

Hi Melanie,

Sorry to be a nuisance, and I apologize for my ignorance, but who would
the "owner of the U.S. and foreign trademark rights in the term PEARL JAM"
be? I'm just trying to gather who exactly you are and why you are
contacting me on their behalf.

Regards,
Chris
How's that? I think it's pretty good! :bigsm:

[Beta]

Well, I've decided to inquire about more information as to who they are and who their representing. Here's my latest response to them:

Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:09:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Chris Martino
To: Melanie Lauger
Subject: RE: PEARL-JAM.NET Domain Name

Hi Melanie,

Sorry to be a nuisance, and I apologize for my ignorance, but who would
the "owner of the U.S. and foreign trademark rights in the term PEARL JAM"
be? I'm just trying to gather who exactly you are and why you are
contacting me on their behalf.

Regards,
Chris


How's that? I think it's pretty good! :bigsm:

did anyone else notice the sexual tension? hehe j/k:P

[prism]

Well, I've decided to inquire about more information as to who they are and who their representing. Here's my latest response to them:


How's that? I think it's pretty good! :bigsm:

sounds good to me Mr. Martino

does that mean that they'll get a cut of the profits that you make on pimpin us out? :ditsy:

[reallygroovN]

did anyone else notice the sexual tension? hehe j/k:P
lol, beta...sexsexsex...is that ALL you think about :cool:

i think your reply sounds great, chris. it sounds as though you are protecting the domain name from folks who may not have the best intentions. :)

[Not_Trapped]

hey chris, i can try to find out more information about this tomorrow - of course when i called my prof she wanted me to learn something, but if she realizes that it's not mere curiosity she might help me out more -

here's the bad thing - if they represent the band then they are pissed at you because of this - some of the files you have are from the bit.torrent mp3 sources which came from the mp3 links that the band made available to fans that bought the bootlegs - they made it sort of clear that those links weren't to be traded thus implying that the mp3s were not to be traded either.

the thing working in your favor is that you own the domain right now - you haven't defamed the band or the name of the band -

if they want it though - it's theirs since they hold the trademark (note the similar spelling language that would indicate a domain name eerily similar that would lead a person to associate it with the trademark holder) and obviously this domain name is meant to be associated with the band.

i am guessing that they are trying to get all domain names now that they are controlling things

dominic

[csmooth24]

im guessing its sony. then they will sell the rights back to PJ...

SELL DIRECT! :P

[Smirks]

im guessing its sony. then they will sell the rights back to PJ...

SELL DIRECT! :P
I think it may be Sony too. They haven't repiled back as of yet. :

[low_light]

yes, if you ask more than the price you got it for they legally can take it from you they are trying to fuck you into cyber-squatting. you own the domain legally regardless of who's name it is. just dont send any asking price and you'll be fine.

-d

[csmooth24]

i haven't heard back yet either chris...i will...

[Smirks]

Here is their latest response:



Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:08:38 -0800
From: Melanie Lauger &lt;melanie.lauger@stokeslaw.com&gt;
To: Chris Martino
Subject: RE: PEARL-JAM.NET Domain Name

[ The following text is in the "iso-8859-1" character set. ]
[ Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set. ]
[ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ]

Dear Chris,

We represent the owner, as listed in the public U.S. Patent and Trademark
Office records. We would like to make an offer of $200 to purchase the name.

Sincerely,
Melanie Lauger

... and my response ...



Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:14:42 -0500 (EST)
From: Chris Martino
To: Melanie Lauger &lt;melanie.lauger@stokeslaw.com&gt;
Subject: RE: PEARL-JAM.NET Domain Name

Hi Melanie,

Could you please spare me the agonizing process of looking up the US
Patents and Trademarks by telling me who the owner is?

Regards,
Chris

... looks like they're trying to be secretive..... it must be Sony!

I am looking up the patents and trademarks online now. We'll see what they return.

[csmooth24]

$200? I think it must be sony too. I'll let you know as soon as I do what I hear back...

[Smirks]

Their response:



Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:33:28 -0800
From: Melanie Lauger &lt;melanie.lauger@stokeslaw.com&gt;
To: Chris Martino
Subject: RE: PEARL-JAM.NET Domain Name

[ The following text is in the "iso-8859-1" character set. ]
[ Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set. ]
[ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ]

Chris,

The owner of the U.S. and foreign trademark rights in the term "PEARL JAM" is
Pearl Jam. Is the PEARL-JAM.NET domain name for sale?

Thanks,
Melanie Lauger

lol.... sometimes I amaze myself.

[csmooth24]

so who is the owner? :P

still, is that the band? or SONY's trademark on Pearl Jam?

[Smirks]

Well, according to the trademark office it's:

(REGISTRANT) PEARL JAM, A GENERAL PARTNERSHIP composed of Stone Gossard, Mike McCready, Eddie Vedder, and Jeff Ament, all U.S. citizens PARTNERSHIP CALIFORNIA c/o Danna L. Cook 11377 West Olympic Boulevard Los Angeles CALIFORNIA 90064

amung others...

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=toc&state=c7te4i.1.1&p_search=searchss&p_L=50&BackReference=&p_plural=yes&p_s_PARA1=&p_tagrepl%7E%3A=PARA1%24LD&expr=PARA1+AND+PARA2&p_s_PARA2=Pearl+Jam&p_tagrepl%7E%3A=PARA2%24COMB&p_op_ALL=AND&a_default=search&a_search=Submit+Query

notice how it says "All US Citizens", so I guess that means me too!

[Smirks]

Well, according to the trademark office it's:

(REGISTRANT) PEARL JAM, A GENERAL PARTNERSHIP composed of Stone Gossard, Mike McCready, Eddie Vedder, and Jeff Ament, all U.S. citizens PARTNERSHIP CALIFORNIA c/o Danna L. Cook 11377 West Olympic Boulevard Los Angeles CALIFORNIA 90064

amung others...

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=toc&state=c7te4i.1.1&p_search=searchss&p_L=50&BackReference=&p_plural=yes&p_s_PARA1=&p_tagrepl%7E%3A=PARA1%24LD&expr=PARA1+AND+PARA2&p_s_PARA2=Pearl+Jam&p_tagrepl%7E%3A=PARA2%24COMB&p_op_ALL=AND&a_default=search&a_search=Submit+Query

notice how it says "All US Citizens", so I guess that means me too!
duh... that prolly really means that all the guys are US citizens.... but I like to think I own part of the trademark too.

The lady is still being really shady.

Any ideas on what my next step should be?

I'm tempted to just say fuck it and tell her I don't wanna sell.

Whatchy'all think?

[csmooth24]

just wait...we'll see...

if the band wants it, i say take the $200 bucks, go get shitty and give us a new URL...

but maybe that's not as easy as it sounds...???

[jamijams]

I think you should hold out for a bit and see what happens. see if smooth can get any info for you, and see how persistent she becomes. not to mention, two hundred dollars? please. that will barely buy you and mita a nice dinner with a bottle of wine. get real lady, we KNOW they gots more money than two hunart dolla!

[jamijams]

please dont think i'm saying i think you shoudl try and turn a big profit. that part was a joke. i think you should hold tight for a few days and seek some more advice from people you know. but i do think there should be a contest for the new name if you HAVE to sell!!!

[low_light]

hehe, she's starting to get short with you too. hehe

why the F would they want a hyphenated domain name anyway?

weird stuff.

[Buannan]

I don't think it would be asking for too much to ask for proof that she represents whom she says she does

when dealing with lawyers, it's always best to think like a lawyer...which means get it ALL in writing...from whom her law firm is and exactly whom they represent down to what they will pay and how...every detail

you can say you are looking out for your best interests...and PJ's too for that matter...and that before going any further on any decision, you'd like proof she is whom she says she is

[Smirks]

I don't think it would be asking for too much to ask for proof that she represents whom she says she does

when dealing with lawyers, it's always best to think like a lawyer...which means get it ALL in writing...from whom her law firm is and exactly whom they represent down to what they will pay and how...every detail

you can say you are looking out for your best interests...and PJ's too for that matter...and that before going any further on any decision, you'd like proof she is whom she says she is
Those are very good suggestions, Buannan. I'm gonna wait until tomorrow before I send her a response. If anything it'll be to ask for full disclosure in writing along with my mailing address.

Just out of curosity, how would she or the firm be able to prove they're representing who she says they are? She could just be saying this to snag a good domain name.

I guess that's what I get for registering a bunch of them back in the late 90s.

[Buannan]

she should have a retainer type paper from her client...basically a piece of paper, signed by them/him giving the law firm power of attorney to a certain extent

she could be representing anyone...and you're supposed to just go on an unsolicited email?

I'm sure there is a way to give proof
if nothing else, that will also buy you time

[reallygroovN]

well, her attitude pisses me off.

so, beings that i love to fuck with people when im pissed off, *i* would retort....

dear melanie,
i registered this domain, years ago, for one reason only...to receive, disseminate and hold in record (in a truly positive format), information, music and ideas about a band that i love and has changed my life. in the last few years, this domain has changed to a small bbs that a number of fans and people who i call friends gather to discuss pearl jam.

this site means more to me then any amount of money that you could offer me, and i take it as an insult (not only to me but to the band that you work for) that you would only offer $200 to, in essence, take away a domain that 25-50 people from around the world regularly get together in the true sense of community that i believe pearl jam and their music stands for.

shame on you, motherfucker. im keeping my domain in order to protect its integrity. and you cant have it
chris

or something like that....but, you know, im a bit emotional at times :rolleyes:

[csmooth24]

settle down cath! :P

hehe...you're a good writer...

[reallygroovN]

settle down cath! :P

hehe...you're a good writer...
DAMM
THE
MAN!
:D

[Beta]

it'd be funny if she's reading this whole thing:D

[csmooth24]

that's what i was thinking... :P

[jamijams]

it'd be funny if she's reading this whole thing:D

i've been wondering if in fact, she is reading this whole thing. and lots of other things too......
:nospeak: :surprise: :rolleyes:

[Smirks]

i've been wondering if in fact, she is reading this whole thing. and lots of other things too......
:nospeak: :surprise: :rolleyes:
So what if she is. In fact, I hope she is.

[Not_Trapped]

if they know your name and they are representing a legal faction then they should be able to get your real deal address and mail you proper papers. or phone you at least. this is really shady.



dominic

[reallygroovN]

So what if she is. In fact, I hope she is.
well, if she is then she will see that you, smirks, are the master of your domain :rolleyes: :scared: :bigsm: :devious: ;)

[Not_Trapped]

i'm not -

anyway - find out why they want it - (and yes all us citizens means they are all us citizens - silly bear) :P if they are just trying to get all the domains with similar names of the trademark just so they can control them then maybe you can work something out to keep this one but if they want it for a functional reason then just UP the price - how much did you pay for it - you can tell me via PM :)

dominic

[RogueTrader]

1. You should probably see a lawyer, Chris. Some one cheap, would be my advice. It's a legal transaction and anyone who represents themselves in a legal matter has a fool for a client. Spend the 70 bucks or so and be certain what your rights are.

2. The reason they want the name is that it is similar to the name Pearl Jam. In order to protect the trademark / brand name they would be negotiating with or registering all similar names, like "Perl Jam" "Porl Jam" as well as hyphenated or underscored names. It's standard business practice.

3. $200 is a more than generous offer for a domain name under the anti-cyber squatting laws. A site like Go Daddy or one of those won't charge that much to register a domain name. so you are actually profiting, which is not strictly allowable under the law. Still, a lawyer might get you a larger number, after all even if they paid $1,000 it would still be cheaper than litigating. You'd probably have to give the lawyer 40% of what ever you got, though.

4. I've said this before, but it bares repeating: It doesn't matter WHAT you are using the name for or that you are using it for GOOD purposes, it's more their name than yours. That's a crappy thing to say, but it's the truth. I'm grateful for what you have done here and I love the place, but iI would love the place as much with a different name. I don't want to see you litigated out of house and home.

5. You need to negotiate a hand over period. It would be reasonable for them to give you 3 months to hand it over. You will need time to arrange a new URL and advise all users. You should also request that a re-direct be kept in place for the first 6 months after the hand over. That's pretty reasonable too. A lawyer could advise or negotiate this for you...see point 1.

6. As Dom mentioned, you don't want to get too cute with these guys coz they can do more than sue you for the domain name

There aren't too many moves you can make here, Chris. The Name "Pearl Jam" and all facsimilies are clearly the property of the band. If it was Sony, I doubt you would have gotten a letter, you would be part of some larger class action and would be shut down by now. The band are being nice by trying to settle this as a win win. They aren't trying to be jack booted nazis or anything and they aren't trying to take away something you have worked for. They are offering to be fair and reasonable.

I'm sure it pains all of us to lose something familiar, but it's better to walk away with something than to walk away with nothing.

::M

[RogueTrader]

if they know your name and they are representing a legal faction then they should be able to get your real deal address and mail you proper papers. or phone you at least. this is really shady.



dominic
Not really, Dom. Stokes Lawrence appear to be a reputable firm with a <a href="http://www.stokeslaw.com/CM/PracticeAreaDescriptions/practiceareadescriptions8.asp">healthy IP practice</a>.

::M

[Not_Trapped]

the fact that he isnt making money is a big deal - because if they decide to sue the court will probably be like "this is ridiculous...you have to be kidding us, the court, with this suit - it's a message board" if he was making a profit the court would be less likely to be nice about it -

that's all - no biggie -

dominic

[Not_Trapped]

Not really, Dom. Stokes Lawrence appear to be a reputable firm with a healthy IP practice (http://www.stokeslaw.com/CM/PracticeAreaDescriptions/practiceareadescriptions8.asp).

::M
i was just going by what i would do it if were me trying to get the site from chris -

do trademarks fall under IP? or does IP become a substantive thing once it is "realized"?

i don't know nor do i pretend to know -

dominic

[Buannan]

Not really, Dom. Stokes Lawrence appear to be a reputable firm with a <a href="http://www.stokeslaw.com/CM/PracticeAreaDescriptions/practiceareadescriptions8.asp">healthy IP practice</a>.

::M
Still...he would not be out of line to ask for official paperwork...just to cover his ass
and take that paperwork to the attorney

I figured it went without saying that smirks needs to approach an attorney on this one...but get all the info he can first...less hours paid to his attorney that way

[share]

i'm a little paranoid

i'd be worried that she's trying to get you to take money and then
slap you with some shit about making an illegal profit
off of the name pearl jam

or something like that

i'd seek a little advice before i did anything

what the fuck is going on here anyway!!

jesus christ

the band loves their fans - how about some sort of agreement
arranged setting out guidelines to continue usage etc etc

all those sites out there set up by loyal fans - i'm sure
there are some skanky ones but take the time
and have a look - it's just us for god sakes

man - talk about talking the helm love boat captain

put you in a dinghy and set you out to sea

[RogueTrader]

i was just going by what i would do it if were me trying to get the site from chris -

do trademarks fall under IP? or does IP become a substantive thing once it is "realized"?

i don't know nor do i pretend to know -

dominic
Well, their website lists Trademark law as IP, so I guess it's IP as far as they are concerned. I am also sure that if Chris was to indicate that the site is for sale, the paper work would follow. Formal offer, all that sort of thing. From the looks of the corrospondance so far, they just want to know if they can buy it.

The other thing to remember is that if they start making exceptions to which sites they buy and which hey don't, based on the fact that the person who runs the site is a nce guy, then it's more difficult to control things. Also Chris is a cool guy now, but what if he gets hit on the head by a golf ball in 6 months and starts spouting shit about the band coz he's insane.

Additionally, my understanding of the 'profiting from cyber-squatting' clause doesn't refer to making an on going profit by operating the site and selling shonkey merchandise - for example - but refers to the act of buying the domain name and then waiting for the the rightful owner to come along and extorting a huge sum from them. The fact hat Chris isn't operating an on going business from the site is irrelevant. The compelling part of the statute is the part that talks about how the a group like Pearl Jam has more right to the name "Pearl-Jam.net" than does Chris, because they have been touring and recording as Pearl Jam for 12 years.

I'm just a little stunned that there should be any indignation from any one on this issue at all.

::M

[Johnny Carwash]

would it be so wrong if you didn't want to sell the address? since this is a harmless site.., but if you were to give it up, i think you should wait until it's time to renew your registration

and if you do change to another name, i think vitalogyhealthnuts.net would be cool ;)

[Buannan]

just to clarify...if this place is legit...I think chris should just give it to them

I'm just not convinced it's legit is all...I'm not a very trusting person...and the whole contact by email only thing makes me more than a bit wary

plus...I've had more than my share of run ins with shitty attituded lawyers that think they are superior to everything on earth and that they can just order me around

sigh...where is judge judy when you need her
:P

[share]

just to clarify i am a little indignant - and i don't think
it's worth any fight from chris - it's just a name

that's my point - time/money over something that
lacks substance

and geez michael - you've gone into "uber-marketing mode" with
the "share the knowledge in such a way that perhaps nobody
will notice the elaborate way in which the obvious is being stated"

not taking a dig at you it's just that this is where i get to be base - i save
that other crap for the office

:)

[Not_Trapped]

yes, a windfall of money would fall under the statute as well michael...but it is not irrelevant that he is not making a profit at this point.

i am not merely saying that because chris is a nice guy that it should be considered but coupled with his intention with this domain there is a pretty good argument that he is NOT cyber squatting -

we can talk about it and talk about it and all that we think is irrelevant until something happens or a court rules on it - if it were to go that far (but it won't).

--dominic--

[Not_Trapped]

and of course you can always sue them if you do it sell it to them and they turn around and sell it for a disproportionate amount in comparison to the price they paid you -

keep that in mind -

also - clue me in - when you register a domain name do you have to pay a fee for that or how does this work?

dominic

[Smirks]

and of course you can always sue them if you do it sell it to them and they turn around and sell it for a disproportionate amount in comparison to the price they paid you -

keep that in mind -

also - clue me in - when you register a domain name do you have to pay a fee for that or how does this work?

dominicHaving a domain name is like renting in on a yearly basis. I pay $8.00 per year for the name. When I first registered it it was $70/year, then $35/year and now I moved it to like a sub account of my company (http://www.hostnix.com) so it's $8/year. I've had it since 1999 and it's due to expire in 2004.... but I really don't wanna get rid of it! Can I just tell them I don't wanna sell and be done with it??

[RogueTrader]

Having a domain name is like renting in on a yearly basis. I pay $8.00 per year for the name. When I first registered it it was $70/year, then $35/year and now I moved it to like a sub account of my company (http://www.hostnix.com) so it's $8/year. I've had it since 1999 and it's due to expire in 2004.... but I really don't wanna get rid of it! Can I just tell them I don't wanna sell and be done with it??
Of course you can.

The downside of that is that according to the law, you don't really have any right to have the domain name registered at all. You are not Pearl Jam, an authorised agent of Pearl Jam, the management company, the lawyers or the merchandisers. The law was written specifically so that people who have a legitimate claim to the name cannot be usurped by someone - well meaning or not - who registers it before them.

If I were a betting man, I would put money on you losing in court should this get that far. There would be very little compelling evidence to support the notion that you have more of a right to the domain name than the band. I think that the law firm's offer to buy you out and your refusal would also be a compelling factor.

Chris, I know that this bites the big one. It's been home for 4 years and it feels as if you are being kicked out now. This is the reason that you need to go talk to a lawyer. You may end up making an emotional decision to a situation that does not warrant an emotional response. This law firm and the band aren't trying to punish you or kick you around. They are just involved in a business transaction.

It's good that this domain name is a sub domain of the company you set up. That means that all of your legal expenses should be deductable come April. Even more of a reason that you should go to the lawyer.

::M

[reallygroovN]

Having a domain name is like renting in on a yearly basis. I pay $8.00 per year for the name. When I first registered it it was $70/year, then $35/year and now I moved it to like a sub account of my company (http://www.hostnix.com/) so it's $8/year. I've had it since 1999 and it's due to expire in 2004.... but I really don't wanna get rid of it! Can I just tell them I don't wanna sell and be done with it??
if you dont want to sell, then dont sell. tell em that nicely and professionally and then find out what happens next. they will then either tell you that you must give the domain to them or they will let it be.

and you know what? the band was around in the late 90s. i find it difficult to believe that it has taken them all this time to finally get around to scooping up all the pearljam related domains out there.

frankly, this whole matter sounds more like this lawyer was testing the waters to see if you were a smarmy person who would *sell* the domain for more than what it is worth.

heh heh, you could always write back and say that you would only consider giving it to them if one of the band members calls you personally and asks you nicely :classic:

[Not_Trapped]

they haven't said "sell it or else"

they asked if it was for sale after you emailed them in response to their offer of 200 - just say no and go from there -

it could be a dumb thought but i think if it is really an agent of the band that maybe they are just trying to get the domains registered, like this one, but not necessarily gonna push it.

you remember the letter the sony lawyers sent some places -

--dominic--

[Johnny Carwash]

i don't think sony would own the name "Pearl Jam"
pj owns all their own songs, so i'd think they'd own their own name as well

[Not_Trapped]

yeah but while pearl jam was with sony they sent nasty emails to some website heads alleging stuff and talking of certain penalties that were grossly proportionate to what was happening -

jeff stone mike and that singer jointly own "pearl jam"

dominic

[yemenboy13]

i did a search for my aunts name in google and this website came up and i read all 6 pages and i figured i would add something i know that she is a lawyer in Seattle and that pearl jam is one of her client and they have gone to her house and so on so they are not trying to rip you off or anything they are really nice people

[oblio]

i did a search for my aunts name in google and this website came up and i read all 6 pages and i figured i would add something i know that she is a lawyer in Seattle and that pearl jam is one of her client and they have gone to her house and so on so they are not trying to rip you off or anything they are really nice people
you're aunt pearl is a lawyer in seattle who has had the band
visit her house?

it can't be the band cuz we all know they are not nice people.

[share]

I think you should mention somewhere along the line that this is
a not-for-profit somethingerother something as you have no intention
of proftiting off of the name pearl jam blah blah blah

it looks like they went straight for the gusto asking if you intended to sell
the domain

man, isn't anything easy anymore

you don't even want to fart out of line

and why can't they just be a little more open??? It's almost like they're trying to trick you into doing the wrong thing from a legal standpoint

[Not_Trapped]

I think you should mention somewhere along the line that this is
a not-for-profit somethingerother something as you have no intention
of proftiting off of the name pearl jam blah blah blah

it looks like they went straight for the gusto asking if you intended to sell
the domain

man, isn't anything easy anymore

you don't even want to fart out of line

and why can't they just be a little more open??? It's almost like they're trying to trick you into doing the wrong thing from a legal standpoint
i think it was taken care of.

[share]

i think it was taken care of.

I wondered about that - the post was back up at the top
so I thought maybe it was a whole new post and it was starting all
over again

or maybe i've just hit a worm hole

hehe

[oblio]

I wondered about that - the post was back up at the top
so I thought maybe it was a whole new post and it was starting all
over again

or maybe i've just hit a worm hole

hehe
put that worm away.
someone's gonna lose an eye.

now get back to work.

[reallygroovN]

i did a search for my aunts name in google and this website came up and i read all 6 pages and i figured i would add something i know that she is a lawyer in Seattle and that pearl jam is one of her client and they have gone to her house and so on so they are not trying to rip you off or anything they are really nice people
wow, you have a cool auntie. although i hope she didnt try to sue our friend smirks for the name of this website. because then she would be mean.

and i dont think pearljam is nice. listen to their music. they sound like mean, angry boys.

wormhole :P

lol

hi pearljam's lawyer's nephew (or niece). nice to meet ya :D

[Not_Trapped]

wow, you have a cool auntie. although i hope she didnt try to sue our friend smirks for the name of this website. because then she would be mean.

and i dont think pearljam is nice. listen to their music. they sound like mean, angry boys.

wormhole :P

lol

hi pearljam's lawyer's nephew (or niece). nice to meet ya :D
nephew - yemenboy!

[reallygroovN]

nephew - yemenboy!
well, you never know.....kids, these days :P:rolleyes:

[A*FallsInMay]

Sorry to bump this up again but how did it get resolved?

[Not_Trapped]

Sorry to bump this up again but how did it get resolved?
10 step duel...

[rockrighter]

10 step duel...
One of the greatest exchanges in the Back to the Future trilogy is in the third, when they're in the street outside the tavern.

Tannen: DRAW!

Marty: No!

I just think it genius, is all.

As you were.

[Not_Trapped]

One of the greatest exchanges in the Back to the Future trilogy is in the third, when they're in the street outside the tavern.

Tannen: DRAW!

Marty: No!

I just think it genius, is all.

As you were.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha - i thought i was the only one

[Smirks]

Sorry to bump this up again but how did it get resolved?
... one of my boys w/ connections talked to someone who talked to someone else and all is good now. :)

[poopypants]

what happened

[oblio]

... one of my boys w/ connections talked to someone who talked to someone else and all is good now. :)
I knew it.
this woman found a horses head in her bed,didn't she?

[rockrighter]

I knew it.
this woman found a horses head in her bed,didn't she?
*sings*

she rode a horse into my head ...



We need a musical note thingie.

[poopypants]

that is a great fuckin song